Saganist

Thanks, C.L. I like them both, but for some reason...

2009-11-11T12:05:29.232-08:00

Thanks, C.L. I like them both, but for some reason the We Are All Connected video hits me a little bit harder.

Thanks, Sabayon. Thanks a lot. Now I can't stop hearing Kermit. :-)

Thanks, Tim! I totally agree. I hope it's okay I added you as a NaNo writing buddy. Good luck with your novel, it looks like you're well ahead of pace!

Hey, I found your blog through Nano. I'm runningb ...

2009-11-11T08:44:16.131-08:00

Hey, I found your blog through Nano. I'm runningb from Utah County. I really liked this video. I'm kind of getting over the whole voice modulation thing, but the message is spot on.

You know synthesized Carl Sagan sounds a lot like ...

2009-11-08T15:25:53.619-08:00

You know synthesized Carl Sagan sounds a lot like Kermit the Frog. Coincidence? I think not.

That symphony is pretty good, but I actually like ...

2009-11-08T04:50:17.907-08:00

That symphony is pretty good, but I actually like the other one better -- the Carl Sagan song that my kids and I have dubbed "The Galaxy-Rise Song."

Oh, that was so brilliant. That raving lunatic Jon...

2009-11-07T08:45:37.597-08:00

Oh, that was so brilliant. That raving lunatic Jon channeled there is a surprisingly realistic take on Mr. Beck.

I agree, this was tremendous. I want to have Steph...

2009-11-05T11:03:10.160-08:00

I agree, this was tremendous. I want to have Stephen Colbert's babies.

I'm still not sure blogging my novel was a good id...

2009-11-05T11:02:33.764-08:00

I'm still not sure blogging my novel was a good idea, but I kind of like the silent companionship of the readers who may or may not actually be reading it. The bad part is that it makes me feel a bit like I need to write something decent, which is the totally wrong attitude. So far I think I've gotten lucky because I like my story and I think it's pretty interesting, and I don't mind so much if the writing is terrible.

I LOVED this clip. It might be my favorite Report ...

2009-11-04T14:06:56.496-08:00

I LOVED this clip. It might be my favorite Report moment ever, which is saying a whole hell of a lot!

You are braver than me. I'm too chicken to let peo...

2009-11-04T14:06:28.118-08:00

You are braver than me. I'm too chicken to let people read my novel-in-progress. Hell, I'm embarrassed to answer when people even ask me what it's about.

Thanks, gharkness! Use the temporary-Mormon strate...

2009-10-28T12:34:22.138-07:00

Thanks, gharkness! Use the temporary-Mormon strategy wisely. About a week ago when I encountered the missionaries in my driveway, I told them I was a Mormon but I don't think they believed me right away. They asked, "What ward is this?" I knew the answer and they left me alone. Not that it's a big deal if they catch you pretending, but it might be an awkward moment. Heck, maybe that would be a good thing. :-)

I recently had an interview with my bishop. He as...

2009-10-27T17:35:18.494-07:00

I recently had an interview with my bishop. He asked me to stop coming to church (a single's ward) because I was a danger to all the single ladies there (being a non-believer and all).

Then he told me if I continued down this path, I would end up like his worthless brother - a divorced, drug abusing alcoholic with nothing to live for.

Then he told me he does not know the church is true, but believes it is and choose it because he's "kinda a fan of Christianity" and "this one seems to make the most sense."

Then he kept talking about the Mountain Meadows Massacre for some reason and described the process by which he eliminates questionable or inconsistent teachings of the church from his mind and ignores them.

Then he said logic is dangerous and critical thinking puts the church in an un-winnable position.

I didn't rebut anything he said, just sat and listened.

I was recently called in for another interview. I assume it is to get my permission to send my records out of his ward (he seems far more concerned with home teaching numbers than my spiritual well being), but if I end up going I'll probably just walk in and say "now I know what this is for, you don't have to say anything - I accept your apology."

I appreciate and respect both of your points of vi...

2009-10-27T02:43:38.714-07:00

I appreciate and respect both of your points of view. My thought is that, although truthfulness is a virtue, when someone asks me a question (the answer to which is none of their business) all bets are off as to what I might tell them.....with nary a twinge of conscience.

I'll admit it hadn't occurred to me to become a Mormon for the moment, but thanks for the idea! Typically my way of handling this is to point to my prominently-displayed "No Soliciting" sign and say "sorry, I don't have intellectual discussions with illiterates." That is, on the rare occasion when I actually answer the door.

"If I were to proclaim myself an atheist to the mi...

2009-10-26T15:56:42.146-07:00

"If I were to proclaim myself an atheist to the missionaries, I suspect our family would get a lot more unwanted attention from local LDS leadership. The most common place for me to encounter the missionaries is in my own neighborhood, which is why I think it might result in a problem locally."

Good point, and that occurred to me after I had posted.

Thanks, John! And thanks for your comment at MSP t...

2009-10-26T15:36:07.928-07:00

Thanks, John! And thanks for your comment at MSP too. You ask a very good question.

I admit the main reason for telling LDS missionaries "yes" is so I can exit the conversation quickly, and I appreciate you sharing your own experiences being upfront with them about your atheism. At times I would like to be more straightforward, but at the same time I don't feel I owe them an explanation either. Maybe they wouldn't expect one.

While I do feel a little shady about telling them "yes" without further explanation, I also think it might be the best answer not only for myself but for my wife. She attends the LDS church regularly with our kids (I attend a fair amount too). For the most part I try to fly under the radar for her sake, though I obviously don't hold back too much on my own blog. If I were to proclaim myself an atheist to the missionaries, I suspect our family would get a lot more unwanted attention from local LDS leadership. The most common place for me to encounter the missionaries is in my own neighborhood, which is why I think it might result in a problem locally.

In a hypothetical world where I live with my family somewhere far from Utah and Mormonism is more of a distant memory than a present reality, I think my approach to the missionaries might be different.

First I'll answer your question: no, and I never h...

2009-10-26T13:59:51.775-07:00

First I'll answer your question: no, and I never have been.

A couple days ago, three missionaries (which was odd to me) rang my bell:

Approximately, the conversation went like this:
"How are you today?"
"A little busy, what can I do for you?"
"We'd like to [missionary pitch]."
"No thanks, I'm good being an atheist."
"Oh, ok, is there anything we can do for you?"
"No, but thanks."
"Alright, have a nice day!"
"You too!"

They left bemused, but that was the end of it.

Everything from my statements to my intention was completely honest. I was busy, and I really did want them to have a nice day.

Now, I'm not judging you for your strategy. My wife becomes a temporary Roman Catholic to avoid talking to missionaries, and I don't get on her case for it.

My point is that if you do feel a little shady about the strategy, honesty causes fewer problems than you might think (especially when tempered with politeness).

I have a counter-question to your intended line of inquiry, but I'll go ask that over at MSP; it's a better forum for what I want to ask.

Thanks, everyone. James, I did say that I agreed w...

2009-10-26T13:24:24.698-07:00

Thanks, everyone. James, I did say that I agreed with Oaks encouraging Mormons to speak up. I disagree that Mormons are being threatened to any appreciable degree for expressing their views, and certainly not within several orders of magnitude of what happened to blacks in the '60s.

I would love to see Oaks say something like, "My point is valid and I stand by it, but the analogy was a poor one and I apologize for how it came across." I doubt he would ever say such a thing, because the church does not apologize or admit mistakes. Still, it would be a nice gesture and would garner some goodwill, which the church seems to be running low on these days.

I appreciate your article because it helps me see ...

2009-10-24T17:37:47.301-07:00

I appreciate your article because it helps me see why people disagree with Elder Oaks, but I still don't completely agree with what you're saying. I think it's really good of Elder Oaks to encourage Mormons to speak up, fearless of retaliation.

I also don't think he's so obviously wrong about comparing the 1960's blacks to the Mormons of today; the blacks were threatened because they spoke up for their interests, just like the Mormons are being threatened for speaking up for their interests. It seems reasonable to me.

I keep hearing people make this very logical point...

2009-10-20T14:21:15.620-07:00

I keep hearing people make this very logical point. (The West Wing had an episode that really nailed it). Yet for some reason people keep on calling them goll durn queers an "abomination." Yeah, well, guess what, buddy? So are your Levi's jeans.

Great post!

This post made me laugh out loud at work, and agai...

2009-10-17T00:37:18.806-07:00

This post made me laugh out loud at work, and again at home when I showed mywife. Great job.

Very nice analysis, Saganist.

2009-10-15T23:38:51.494-07:00

Very nice analysis, Saganist.

While some of the points are sound, we know what t...

2009-10-15T20:09:12.853-07:00

While some of the points are sound, we know what they really mean is, as Mormons, we should be able to do whatever we want, and when anyone protests, we're being discriminated against and persecuted.

They make general points, but really only want them to apply to specific circumstances, but can't go in to the specific examples because that would be against the law. But the Mormon members get the picture, and then get offended when we try to apply their same principles to their actions which violate the same.

You just can't win with those who refuse to see reality, and have no sense of hypocrisy.

Thanks, Probative. I agree. I expected better from...

2009-10-14T11:54:39.373-07:00

Thanks, Probative. I agree. I expected better from him.

Thanks, C.L. It really bothers me that the LDS church has apparently chosen their own "strait and narrow path" toward fanatical fundamentalist authoritarianism. You'd think they might have learned an historical lesson from God's other One True Church that went down that path (the Catholic church, of course). I believe the Catholic church was forced to adapt or die in the 1400-1600s; by adapting, it survived. Maybe LDS church leaders think they're different because they're really the One True Church. Uh huh.

I was surprised that the Informix manual was the only example of accidental chiasmus that popped up in my Google search. I'm sure I've read about plenty of others, not all of which are ancient scriptures of Semitic origin.

Good analysis! I think this increasing polarizati...

2009-10-14T06:29:45.580-07:00

Good analysis! I think this increasing polarization is unfortunate, but I guess that's the road they've chosen, and there's not much we can do about it.

BTW, this is the first time I've seen that link about chaismus in the INFORMIX-OnLine Database Administrator's Guide -- too funny! I'm currently writing a technical (computer) book myself, so I know the style well. I'm tempted to go back and check my earlier chapters for accidental chaismus!

Or maybe I should just get back to work... ;^)

Thanks, everyone. Na'me, your mom's idea is intere...

2009-10-09T09:39:58.454-07:00

Thanks, everyone. Na'me, your mom's idea is interesting. I wonder how uncomfortable a kid would have to be before he or she yells out for the parent. Probably very uncomfortable, even beyond the threshold of what I might consider inappropriate. Did you or any of your siblings ever call for your mom?

Thanks for writing this up Saganist. That it co...

2009-10-08T17:13:17.176-07:00

Thanks for writing this up Saganist.

That it comes from Holland is so very sad.

Gobias